Multiply.Design

Mar 16, '08 6:20 PM
by Rebkin for everyone

Is there a difference how these two browsers handle the MARGIN value that I'm not aware of?

I use Internet Explorer but that's not really the point here. Each time I've changed my theme somewhat I bring up Firefox to check that everything looks alright.

There's always the same problem: I have some buttons and a background in my subnav and the whole subnav is always out of whack in FF. Of course I can adjust it there, but then I have the same problem in IE.

What do I do wrong? This is getting to be like a Catch 22...

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dantcer wrote on Mar 16, edited on Mar 16

Firefox is more compatible here. IE has problems (this is really a fact, and not just because so many think so. lol) Also, IE will overlook errors sometimes and you don't "see" that there's something wrong. Best to use Firefox for editing as it will SHOW you your mistakes.

rebkin wrote on Mar 16

dantcer said

Firefox is more compatible here.

Is that a statement that the Multiply developers would support too?

captainsensible wrote on Mar 16

*bites tongue*

1timelessdove wrote on Mar 16

dantcer said

IE has problems

you've got that right! when i view my page in FF it looks great, but when i view it in IE it looks like crap.

stormkings wrote on Mar 16

I have the opposite problem. My layout looks like I want it in IE and has a huge gap beneath the banner when I view it in FF. I used BOTH to knock out the bugs in the layout, and it had a lot of them. I was shocked to see that huge gap and the nav bar when I looked in FF. How would one get that gap closed, and have the layout look "right" from both browsers? I find FF to be cumbersome for me, visually impaired as I am. Thanks!

rebkin wrote on Mar 16

stormkings said

and have the layout look "right" from both browsers?

that is what I'm wondering too...there seems to be a difference in how the two browsers handle MARGINS...

dantcer wrote on Mar 16

rebkin said

Is that a statement that the Multiply developers would support too?

Yes it is. People are continuously referred to Firefox to fix problems that just can't be fixed with IE. IE issues are well known as the software is severely flawed in the way it handles and renders web pages.

osuzana wrote on Mar 16

When I look at my pages in IE they look out of whack. The main body boxes are always way over to the left.

rebkin wrote on Mar 16

dantcer said

Okay...now I know.

Regardless...it IS still one of the major browsers though...

hanzrobin wrote on Mar 16

I'm with stormkings when it comes to IE and FF. For me, my page and the pages of others has always looked better with IE. I like FF, however it's no longer with me...it just didn't play nice.

Use what works best for you, not the rest of the world.

lfom wrote on Mar 16, edited on Mar 16

Yes, the biggest problem when changing the size/position of the blocks is about margin/padding. It seems that IE has many bugs about it: what looks OK on Firefox and Safari may look wrong on IE.

Unfortunately I am not that much a CSS wizard to say exactly where is the problem. When I have this kind of problem, I have to adjust it manually until it looks right on all browsers, really trial-and-error process.

rebkin wrote on Mar 16

lfom said

Exactly...that was my point. I really don't care about which browser people choose to use...I just want it to look good.

stormkings wrote on Mar 16

I did what Ifom said, trial and error. While my site looks the way *I* envisioned it in IE, it's still looking ok in FF, it's just got more of a gap than I would prefer it to have. And that navbar is there, too, but again, it's "ok" in FF. So, please disregard my query that I submitted earlier today on this same topic, but which has not made it through the filter yet. I'm as satisfied as a fellow can get. :)

rebkin wrote on Mar 16

stormkings said

I did what Ifom said, trial and error

Yes, that's what I do too... now I'm almost there :)

I just thought there was some kind of rule that I didn't know about...something that could have made things a little easier.

stormkings wrote on Mar 16

Good luck and thanks for allowing me to ask on your thread. :)

acrafty1 wrote on Mar 16

The issues with IE are not just something that Multiply Developers would tell you about either...after starting here (and finding myself very confused with css, lol) I went out and bought a beginners book to css and even THERE they point out common flaws (as dantcer pointed out) that are experienced with IE browsers (though I really don't understand their explanation how to deal with theme). The theme I've been working on I started designing in IE...and it looked great 'til I downloaded FF and saw how screwed up it looked, lol. I FINALLY got the discrepancies worked out ..... but only because someone with more talent than I gave me a hand. From now on, I'll do ALL my designing in FF first and hopefully avoid the headaches that IE created, hehe...

rebkin wrote on Mar 16

acrafty1 said

even THERE they point out common flaws

Hello there :)

Yes..I know about this. It's a sad state of affairs that they cannot seem to agree on a common standard. Imagine having this as a JOB..

Now, this wasn't really my point. I was hoping someone here who was more experienced with CSS than I (I am not experienced at all...only what I've picked up since I started here), would perhaps have some kind of rule or «work-around»... One never knows..I just took a chance.

I don't take part in all those browser discussions -- because it doesn't really matter -- if you start creating in FF and then go and have a look in IE, it's out of whack...and the other way around :-)

...I just know that A LOT of people still use IE and that I want the layout to look alright. I do like LFOM said...trial and error. Eventually I get there.

dantcer wrote on Mar 16

I've got a couple of crappy looking things on my page in IE :/ I will need some help fixing those :/

dantcer wrote on Mar 16

OR.. I may just add VIEW MY PAGE IN FIREFOX. lol

dantcer wrote on Mar 16, edited on Mar 16

http://multiplydesign.multiply.com/links/item/94/Internet_Explorer_CSS_Issues

acrafty1 wrote on Mar 17

rebkin said

Hello there :)

Hello... :)
Sorry I could not be more help because I know your pain, lol.....I went back & forth like crazy straightening things out on one browser only to find I was messing up the viewing on the other and it was maddening (especially since I also lack experience to pinpoint specific problems). Hope someone is able to help guide you to getting both browsers looking similar, as I know I was getting ready to 'give up' just before I got the help I desperately needed, lol.

missingbits wrote on Mar 17

dantcer said

OR.. I may just add VIEW MY PAGE IN FIREFOX. lol

I might go grab a couple of FF buttons for folks to use ... I need one myself

Actually you know I think it depends on the base theme, one thing I noticed while I was doing my project is some base theme codes have more "in" them (some have more errors too but that's another thing)
Some of the base theme codes have more "parts" and some of them have double code one in notations one not now when I removed the code with the notations the theme went "off" all out of wack so I left them there

I know on Blogger CSS codes there are IE fix codes and codes are codes aren't they
they look like this
#sidebar { float: left; width: 170px; padding-left: 28px; font-size: 85%; color: $sidebartextcolor; line-height:
1.4em; word-wrap: break-word; /* fix for long text breaking sidebar float in IE */ overflow: hidden; /* fix for long non-text content breaking IE sidebar float */ }
#ads-wrapper {float: right; width: 200px; padding-right: 30px; word-wrap: break-word;

dantcer wrote on Mar 17

I've always wondered when viewing using Firebug I see "mozilla" in the code.

ursin1 wrote on Mar 17, edited on Mar 17

The only thing I have to say is that FF very methodical follows the W3C standards, IE doesnt. It has been and is still a problem - its possible to get along with the probs. but I dont know enough now to tell you how.

Maybe you can find something here:http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/index5.htm
And Microsoft has a site:http://msdn.microsoft.com/author/dhtml/overview/

dantcer wrote on Mar 17, edited on Mar 17

IE will have to change I think. But they are going to resist it kicking and screaming. Because M$ likes having the monopoly on something.. even something that's wrong or has to be wrong to be monopolized. lol

acrafty1 wrote on Mar 17

dantcer said

I would imagine if more & more people switched over to FF, they wouldn't have much of a choice.....what good would the browser be if no one was using it. Of course I might be wrong about that...Microsoft may not care as long as their operating system is being used.

rebkin wrote on Mar 17

ursin1 said

its possible to get along with the probs. but I dont know enough now to tell you how.

Thank you for the links. At this point I've bascially given up. Either I change browser, make my little themes and don't give a r4t's a$$ about what other people see OR I just use the ready-made themes that they offer. But I have to admit...it's so much fun to change themes to something personal.

dantcer wrote on Mar 17

Even the ready made themes aren't browser specific. I have seen some that say "best viewed in FF", and I've seen them work in FF better because it's easy to catch any css mistakes making them with FF.

rebkin wrote on Mar 17

dantcer said

yes, I've seen that too...but I meant the ones that Multiply offers when you click modify > choose a theme...

At least I'll wait some time before I try this again. Last night I got so angry and fed up with that stupid subnav moving up and down as I went between my two windows LOL...

missingbits wrote on Mar 17

rebkin said

I meant the ones that Multiply offers when you click modify > choose a theme

LoL I know that feeling ..one in particular I had to use someone elses CSS modified from the original just so I could modify it ..that was Melon
I'm not sure how the ones I've done work on IE didn't check them all but its possible that some look better on IE than others ...they aren't all the same in ways of padding etc

dantcer wrote on Mar 17

And those that post "do not alter" on their themes... SORRY, but sometimes there are errors and sometimes they don't match with someone's browser and have to be reworked.

thecakeisalie wrote on Mar 25, edited on Mar 25

I believe the issue here is how IE interprets the box model and this is very tedious indeed for people who want to customize their multiply since almost all customizable elements use it.

Here's an explanation of the differences in IE and Firefox's rendering of the box model:

http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200612/internet_explorer_and_the_css_box_model/

The article also describes several ways to work around this that is available to us, one is to use CSS hacks and the other is to use conditional elements. I'd recommend the latter. It basically lets you set CSS for a specific browser. Granted, it can make your CSS as much as twice as long but if you just want your page looking good, this is a viable option

Also, here's a reference for the conditional elements straight from MS' website:

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512.aspx

rebkin wrote on Mar 25

thecakeisalie said

it can make your CSS as much as twice as long but if you just want your page looking good, this is a viable option

Thank you very much for this link. I do want my page to look good, not only for myself...since I've put so much work and energy into it :)

thecakeisalie wrote on Mar 25, edited on Mar 25

Glad to help. I'm new here myself and the first attempt to customize the CSS is a nightmare. =)

rebkin wrote on Mar 25

thecakeisalie said

Glad to help. I'm new here myself and the first attempt to customize the CSS is a nightmare. =)

it feels like a Catch 22 :)

dantcer wrote on Mar 25

I have some major IE problems...maybe this is what I will have to do to fix them.. (or get someone to help me with it) :/

1. Avoid situations that cause problems

This is how I prefer to solve the problem. I simply avoid specifying both width and padding or border for the same element. This ensures that all browsers will use the same total width, no matter which box model they use.

dantcer wrote on Mar 26, edited on Mar 26

I don't understand though why that article states that IE7 will be more compliant? It's just as bad it seems.

thecakeisalie wrote on Mar 26, edited on Mar 26

That's definitely an iron-clad. I myself just use nested DIV tags on my webpages to avoid having those properties on one element.

But since we do not have HTML access on Multiply, and properties like width and padding are essential for spacing between elements, using conditional elements appears to be the option.

dantcer wrote on Mar 26

Of which I have no clue how to do :/ Want a shot at my css? lol

thecakeisalie wrote on Mar 26

Perhaps, dantcer. :-p Right now I'm doing something to change how posts look. I'll share it here once I'm done. =)

dantcer wrote on Mar 26

Great!

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